Learning from a Sourdough Legend My Takeaways from Daniel Leader's Webinar

Note: This article has been reviewed by Daniel Leader to ensure I didn’t misrepresent any of his points or ideas. He read it and gave his blessing, saying “I love every word.” Let’s get into it.


Could baking better sourdough be as simple as ignoring the “rules” and following your instincts instead?

I kept thinking about this after attending a recent webinar with Daniel Leader, a pioneering baker and award-winning author with over 40 years of experience.

As a new sourdough baker who learned mostly from TikTok and Instagram, I was beyond excited to learn from someone with decades of experience.

I did not expect the overwhelming message he, perhaps unintentionally, left me with: relax, don’t stress about perfection, and embrace the process of learning through each bake.

I think it’s something a lot of us need to hear right now.

Daniel’s Sourdough Philosophy

For new bakers like me, Daniel’s philosophy is a true breath of fresh air.

He’s not big on rigid rules or perfect techniques. Instead, he encourages experimentation, learning as you go, and most importantly: enjoying it!

“I’m as focused on how I feel during the process as I am the final result. If I don’t have the perfect texture or something goes wrong, I’m not so worried about that now. To me, I want the process to be really enjoyable” (20:13).

Later in the webinar, he returned to this idea, but he added on to it, reminding us all of what the real point of sourdough is:

“What are we doing? We’re making a really healthy food for people to eat. That, to me, is way more important than, ‘Are my holes as inconsistent as they were yesterday?’ (1:00:09).

I think every new baker needs to hear this!

Sourdough Then vs Now

As a new sourdough baker, I just don’t have a big-picture view of how sourdough has evolved.

Daniel explained that from the 80s to now, the very definition of sourdough bread has changed in an incredibly profound way.

“If you were to hand a baker back then one of these breads full of holes, they would think it’s a fault. They’d think the baker made a mistake and put too much water in the bread. Our post-internet ideal of bread has changed completely. I find it really fascinating” (17:08).

I get messages all the time of people asking me how to get an open crumb – a style of bread I haven’t truly attempted or ever achieved.

But Daniel got me thinking: are we all striving for this because that’s the kind of bread we actually want to eat? Or just because that’s today’s idea of what a great sourdough loaf should look like?

The higher hydration styles of sourdough that involve lots of stretch and folds weren’t always the norm, either.

“Bakers 30 years ago, if you would have said okay, you’re going to have 10 kilos of dough in a bucket and you’re going to fold it every hour for four hours, people would have thought you’re crazy. It’s a lot of work” (18:43).

Learning From the Dough

Daniel’s journey started back in the 1970s. Around that time, he’d show up at bakeries across Europe, knocking on the back door and hoping for a chance to learn from local bakers.

I mean, how amazing is that?!

His advice for developing “soft skills” in baking, like knowing how the dough should feel, stretch, and smell, was exactly what I needed to hear.

He explains in the webinar that sourdough almost forces a certain sensitivity. You start noticing every little thing about the dough, from texture to smell, and that, in turn, changes how you approach each loaf.

This resonated with me so much. Baking sourdough has a funny way of teaching you to let go.

It’s an exercise in patience and, sometimes, you have to have a sense of humor when things don’t go as planned (which, as I’ve learned, happens a lot to me).

Daniel reassured us that it’s okay to mess up.

Baking Around a Flexible Schedule

Daniel also shared insights on fitting sourdough into a schedule that works for you, especially if life keeps you busy.

His approach to baking has evolved since his days in a commercial bakery, and now, as a home baker, he’s relaxed his schedule even more.

“You basically have to ask the question: when do you want to bake your bread? Are you an afternoon baker, are you a morning baker, or an early morning baker or a lunchtime baker? And then you work backwards” (31:04).

I also loved Daniel’s take on not being so rigid when making a loaf of sourdough:

“There are plenty of videos and tutorials on breadmaking, and they’re saying okay, at 45 minutes do this and then another 45 minutes do that. I just don’t tend to be that kind of person.

So, does my bread turn out the same at home all the time? No. Is it always good? Yes” (35:28).

Cooling Down Your Starter

One thing Daniel touched on that I found fascinating is that he likes to cool down his starter, if he can, before baking with it.

In a perfect world, when his starter is peaking, he likes to put it in the fridge for a few hours.

He feels like he gets a little more acid push from the cooler temperature. Keep in mind his starter hasn’t deflated at all – it’s at its peak when it’s cooling down in the fridge.

He’ll taste his starter at that point. He also uses a pH meter and says it’s something like 3.9-4.1.

Daniel’s Take on Adding Commercial Yeast to Sourdough

Although Daniel’s focus is on sourdough, he also mentioned an interesting technique for adding low levels of commercial yeast to sourdough recipes, especially for breads that benefit from a bit more structure, like baguettes.

He explained that adding as little as 0.1% yeast (around 1 gram per 1,000 grams of flour) can give the dough a little extra oven spring.

“I learned that from French bakers,” he shared. “In France, it’s legislated that you can still call it sourdough if it’s less than 0.5% or something – it’s not even a percent; it’s a percentage of a percent” (39:54).

I double-checked this, and it’s technically 0.2%. Daniel admits that many bakers think this is sacrilegious, but it’s how he learned, and he makes great baguettes.

Again, I’m impacted by his overall message: relax!

Daniel’s Response to the Viral Unloaf Trend

I couldn’t help myself: I posted a question in the chat during the webinar asking for Daniel’s take on the viral “unloaf” trend.

If you haven’t heard of it, the unloaf method uses unfed starter (discard), the dough goes untouched (no stretch and folds or similar dough handling methods), and you bake it from an unpreheated oven (cold start).

His response was this:

“I have made bread before when I didn’t have time to do stretch and folds. I incorporated the bread after an autolyse and didn’t touch it for 10-12 hours.

We developed a bread at Bread Alone for a while where we used 2% sourdough in the dough and it would sit for 20 hours. We’d literally make a shaggy dough, let it sit for 20 hours, divide and sort of shape it, almost like unshaped batards in a couche. They looked a little bit like whole grain ciabattas” (46:15).

The point? Experiment! Try new things!

There’s nothing wrong with different methods and techniques.

Daniel said he thinks the idea of using a small percentage of starter and letting your dough sit overnight is a really nice way of making bread.

“Let’s say you do this at 4 o’clock in the afternoon. Put it somewhere really cool, like in your basement. Check it in the morning, check it at noon. Then, you divide it, shape it, and put it in a couche. Very rustic. Bake it right before dinner. You can even throw a handful of sunflower seeds in at noon to make it a little more interesting” (47:23).

I feel a lot of bakers get shamed or looked down upon for straying from the “currently accepted method” of making sourdough bread.

I was totally refreshed and inspired by Daniel’s take.

Grains and the Art of Adaptability

Daniel’s approach to flour and grains was an eye-opener, especially for anyone using freshly milled or local flours.

He explained that “grains are living products” that vary depending on where they’re grown, the season, and the milling process. If you’re expecting the same result every time, you’ll definitely be in for a surprise.

“The chances of even milling the same grain twice is very low, even from the same farm. It’s an agricultural product; it changes” (24:03).

This adaptability is part of what makes sourdough so interesting. Every batch of flour has its quirks, and the key is to work with them rather than against them.

This is especially true when using what he calls “non-commodity flours,” or flours that haven’t been standardized for commercial consistency. And again, Daniel encourages us not to overthink it—just stay curious and adjust as needed.

Finding the Joy in Each Loaf

What I found profoundly inspiring was Daniel’s perspective on enjoying the journey of baking rather than stressing over perfection.

He reminded me that baking is about patience, curiosity, and embracing imperfections.

Here were his parting words: “I love talking to other bakers. I love learning new things. So, you know, I think we’re all students all the time” (1:04:53).

I have a feeling that a lot of bakers need to hear that.

After this webinar, I feel so much more ready to experiment, knowing that each loaf, whether it’s a win or a “lesson,” is just one more step on my sourdough journey.

And maybe, with Daniel’s voice in my head, I’ll worry less about perfect technique and just enjoy the process a bit more.

Related: The Oldest Sourdough Starters (And Why It Doesn’t Really Matter)

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7 Comments

  1. I love all your posts. I especially love your more relaxed take on sourdough. We tend to compare our loaves with posts of seasoned bakers. When I slice my loaf, I realize that some slices have an amazing crumb while others not so much. It really is just one snapshot. If I were to post a photo of that slice, one would be in awe but that doesn’t mean the rest of the loaf isn’t just as delicious even though it might not be my ideal crumb.

    1. First of all, thank you so much. And second, yes!! Daniel’s webinar had such a profound impact on me. It reminded me of a time that I had super overproofed bread and I was telling my husband about it, and he ate a slice and was like, IDK what you’re talking about. This tastes like great bread. People don’t care! Unless you’re selling it, most people don’t know or care if it’s perfectly proofed or has the “perfect” crumb. They just want yummy, healthy bread. It takes a lot of the stress out of it when you look at it that way!

  2. Wow!!! Thank you so much for these notes and thoughts!! It makes a lot of difference to hear all that! Baking bread must be fun and you just made me realized exactly that once more!
    Many greetings from Greece. Eva!

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